香兰冰皮月饼

家里厨房被我搞到乱七八糟,惨不忍睹!
还好厨房是我的地盘, 没人会出声。

全因去年拖到最后一分钟， 已经买不到儿子爱吃的冰皮月饼, 心里好内疚。

今年想自己动手做。心想：要吗就不做， 要做就做到底！

买莲子自己做莲蓉馅， 彻彻底底的自制冰皮月饼。

一想到这里， 真的,真的开心到不得了。。。

这莲蓉馅搞了我好几个晚上，又好浸，又好煑，又好搅糊，终于可以下锅了。

我还特地向家婆借了她珍藏了二十年的宝贝模型。她一再叮咛；记得拿回来啊！

还以为她会一如往常，就这样大方的给了我。
可见她真的非常爱惜它们，那是当年托朋友从香港买回来的！

我是完全可以理解的，搞不好我走的时候也要把厨房里的宝贝一起带进棺材，不是开玩笑的！

"这莲蓉煮得不够油水"，老公说。

"这点也让你吃出来了，功力还真不赖!" 我心想。我确实是少放了(很多)点油。

老公还说糖也煮得不够焦。 唉，真叫人心灰!

想吃得健康多一点都难，唉。。。

再说这冰皮更是让我懊恼，难道又是急性子的错？？

我没有冷藏过夜啦！宝贝模型里面刷了一堆粉，还是不能脱模。

看那一堆惨不忍睹的冰皮 。。。

还引来了不速之客。。。

  

只能怪自己死心眼，用糕粉不就没事了嘛，干嘛又蒸又炒糯米粉？

就为了四个字：彻彻底底！
又是一场无谓的执著。。。

可又能怎样？就家婆老爱说的口头禅：都已经洗湿了头 – 停得了吗？ 

搞出来的冰皮月饼一塌糊涂，宝贝模型也救不了我。我自己看了都不想吃!
盖了一堆白粉，像是雪山顶嘛！

屋漏偏逢连夜雨，这天下午风很大，吹得满地都是粉。。。
。。。痛苦谁人知。。。

这样一来一回，学历害了。不但宝贝模型里面要刷粉，包好的月饼还没进模也要上粉。 

脱模后再把多余的粉刷掉。

看，这还像话一点！

有兴趣的话，食谱在这里- 糕粉法，糯米粉法。

我这月饼是东凑西拼弄出来的。。。

Egg Tarts II

I was all ready for another round of egg tarts.   Found a new recipe I would like to try and adjusted to have perfect dozen of tarts. Then, I bought a dozen of tart molds, couldn’t wait to get my dough in it.  I was thinking: just squeeze that in on Friday night. 
No, that didn’t happen.

Opened my eyes just after six on Saturday morning, needed the extra hours of sleep but my mind was full of egg tarts.  Heck, I was baking away at seven.

Things didn’t go as plan.  20g of dough for my molds is just too little, 30g is about right but that would mean I would have too much custard.  So I took a compromise, 25g.  My tarts didn’t make it in time for the kids as breakfast… ya,  after all the effort, tell me about it !!!

Finally the tarts were ready, and … picture time.  Hold it … why so dark (Singlish)?? – It has been raining since don’t-know-what time.  Picture turned out with light spots everywhere, and I looked like a crazy woman cos’ I haven’t thought about brushing my hair or anything else.

Truly, human plan and God laughs, 人算不如天算.

Instead of using the Superlite flour recommended by Prima, I used cake flour.  After all, one is ‘super soft’ and the other is ‘soft-as-silk’. Wouldn't you do the same ??

Hubby said the tart molds are too shallow, could use more custard.

I realized the biggest challenge in getting to a more likeable recipe is trying to decipher his comments.

“How’s the crust?” I asked.

“Ok la.” He said

“Ok as in can do, or not bad?”

“Hmm … Ok la.”  I was thinking, that was very helpful …

“So you like this or the first one?” I tried again.

“Er … both are ok.”

“But which one do you prefer?” I refused to give up.

“Both are fine.”

“So you don’t have a preference?” Was cornering him now, if you know what I mean.

“Ya, not really.” Finally, something conclusive.  But wait …

“Actually,” he continued, “the first one was crumpier.”

“So you like the first recipe?”

“Ya!”  Halleluiah, finally!!!

By that, you can expect to see ‘Egg Tarts III’…

Notes: Singish is Singapore English, uniquely to Singaporeans. We speak simple English, effectively omitting words, yet still clearly understood by all. The 'la' and the 'lor' give a nice ending to a bad statement, as in 'No la...' as compare to 'No!'
You see what I mean??

Egg Tarts in Muffin Tray

Not the typical wavy edge you see in egg tarts ...

This came as a surprise, to nobody else but me. 

Me ?? – Making egg tarts??

Egg tart is on my ‘No Eat” list, but that’s not important, is it?  My opinion and preference are irrelevant here. 

So, that was the plan; to make egg tarts over the weekends.  I spent days searching for the molds.  I mean not that it’s difficult to find, just that it’s difficult to find MY kind of molds.

So what is MY kind of molds?

No plastics.

No silicon.

No tin.

No (Teflon) non-stick.

Preferably not aluminum.

Can do with stainless steel.

Definitely a yes for cast iron.

Definitely a yes for Pyrex glass.

Definitely a yes for stoneware, ceramic and alike.

Ok, I can consider upgrading Teflon non-stick to ‘preferably not’.

But still, sounds like mission impossible right?

I was at Orchard Road.  You might think: Egg tart molds? - Of all places but Orchard Road??  Along side with Louis Vuitton and Prada??  Ha, I can only say desperate situation calls for desperate measure.  So, I was in Takashimaya and I saw THE bread loaf tray.  I could literately feel my eyes brightened up.  So I asked the sales assistant for the price. 

“SGD 278.” She said.

“You must be kidding!!” I broke out so fast so naturally, impossible to swallow my words before it was too late.

She walked away discreetly, in half a minute.  I am not sure if she felt insulted by my exclamation, but I surely was.  “You are such a cheapo!!” I mocked at myself.  And you think that was embarrassing enough, ha ha ... There was this much more expensive Dutch oven; a couple bought it right in front of my eyes!!!

Then I was at Tangs, found something worth going into my potential to-have list – stainless steel bread loaf pan.  It’s kind of small, biggest is about 200g or so. Can do la, buy two lor … But I was still thinking of that killer cast iron pan at Takashimaya … I should have taken a picture and post it here...

So, I came home empty handed.  The egg tarts recipe was screaming at me.

In the end, I baked my egg tarts in a 12-cup muffin tray.  This was not too much a make-do, really.  The ultimate I came across, was a blogger baking cheese cake without springform pan!!!! If you are reading this, please identify yourself … ha ha.  Can you imagine pressing the base in a round tray? – I think that’s still not so bad, but removing the cheese cake from the tray?? – Simply courageous.

I got my recipe from Christine.  As usual, I made some changes.  First, I replaced with small amount of potato flour for a lighter crust.  Then, I cut down the sugar amount in the custard, and it was still too sweet.

So here is my version:

Ingredients:
Crust:
175g plain flour
50g potato flour
125g butter
55g icing sugar
1 egg, whisked
a dash of vanilla extract

Custard:
3 eggs
100g caster sugar (can be reduced further)
225g hot water
85g evaporated milk
1/2 tsp vanilla extract

I used up only half the custard for 12 tarts, yet the tarts turned out proportionate; crust is not noticeably thick, custard filled up to the rim; two even overflew.  So why ???

Then my husband stepped in to solve the problem: “creme brulee sounds good!” So, I baked the remaining in little bowls.  Conclusion: custard is good for egg tart, but too firm as creme brulee.

How do the egg tarts taste? - Crust is good. Custard filling is good. That, are according to my darlings.  My daughter had one for breakfast, and took one to school.  So I guess they are nice.  If you asked me; I think they taste terrible.  I had a little bite involuntarily.  But hey, don’t take my words for it.  Egg tart is on my ‘No Eat’ list; in case you have forgotten.

It's a recipe much easier than I expected. 

My better half said: “You took five minute to prepare the dough but thirty to shape it.”

And I replied: “And one minute for you to chew it down.”

I have complete trust in his taste; I think my daughter got that from him.  So I have two food critics at home.

Oh, in case you are wondering about the selection criterion of my kitchen ware.  There is only one – healthy choice.  My mother-in-law said to me: “I have been using those all my life, why are you so picky?”  Er … what am I supposed to say? – Because I don’t use the same towel to dry my clean bowl and wipe the dinning table?? ... !!

Thin Crust Pizza

I am so very happy with this recipe; it's simple, easy, and practically knead-less.  Most importantly, I don’t have to deal with the left over thick pizza edge in my kids’ plates.

If you are up for it, you can  make you own pizza sauce.  I use fresh tomatoes; usually make a bigger portion and freeze the remaining.

Depending on your preference, you can vary the  amount of seasoning to your liking.

More garlic? More herbs? More onion? More sugar? More salt? More pepper?

By all means … play with them … and have fun.

For greater ease, here is a semi-scratch method.  Pour in a can of ready made spaghatti sauce, add in the right amount of  ingredients and simmer till thicken.  There you got it. 

Pizza sauce

Ingredients:

5 large tomatoes

1 tablespoon of garlic (minced)

1 onion (minced)

50 ml water

Half teaspoon of Italian herbs

Pinch of black pepper

Pinch of Salt

2 tablespoons olive oil
Sugar (optional)

Directions:

1. Bring pot of water to boil. Drop in tomatoes and cook for 1 min. Remove from pot.  Peel and remove seeds.  Cut into small dice.
2. Heat olive oil in pot and sauté onion and garlic till golden brown.
3. Add in tomatoes and water.
4. Simmer  for about 30 -45 mins till thickened and season to taste.

I got the pizza dough recipe from here.  I am so not used to the ‘envelope of yeast’ or ‘package of yeast’ measurement. 
Envelope and package, same? No same?
Packing size in all countries, same? No same?
Since I bought my yeast by one big package, I must know the equivelence right...?? So, one envelope/package of yeast is about 7g or 2 ¼ teaspoons. 

Talking about yeast, where do you store yours?  My good friend came home from a one-month trip, and realised (the hard way) the bottle of yeast has gone to a better place; the poor dough simply did not rise!  I keep mine in the freezer.  See, it's always good to be friendly and chat with whoever in the store.

This one is an easy recipe , but the hours of waiting time can be quite constraining.  So, I usually make the dough the night before and keep in the fridge; prepare the dough, have dinner, scream at the kids, watch some TV, .... and pizzas fresh from the oven for lunch tomorrow, scream at the kids some more. I have stored my dough for 2 days in the fridge or freeze the dough for weeks.  I suggest to bake them closer to the lower rack, to get a more crusty base and also to avoid surface burnt.

Er ... I hasn't been completely honest - even though this recipe is easy and simple, I do have problem shaping the dough. Maybe I haven't relax the dough enough, cos' I am always so eager to move on ... The easiest way for me, is to  flatten the dough with rolling pin a few times and then slowly push out with fingers till I got the desired thinness.  I have to do this on the baking tray cos' the dough sticks onto the work surface.  If I shaped the dough on the kitchen top, by the time I 'un-stick' the dough, it will spring back and I have to do this all over again ... That's the reason why I have not gotten a pizza peel and baking stone!!  It is such ...a double jeopardy - no good reason to shop for a good obsession (baking)! But, ha ha, since when an obsession can be good ???   Then again, perhaps a good motivation to be patient; wait for the dough to relax the next time ??? - Tough la ... I know myself ...

CC Cheese Cake

After my experience with bread, even more so with my still on-going quest for chewy chocolate chips cookies, cheese cake is my confidence booster.

A friend gave me the recipe.  The first time I baked it, I followed it all diligently; even when that meant having some left over cream; too much to trash and too little for anything else.  Frustrating isn’t it?? So it sat in the fridge for many, many days and finally ended up in the trash bag. *URGHHH*

I think it’s in my gene (ya right, what an excuse …), having left over ingredients just drives me nuts!  So I looked around and concluded that a little difference in the cream cheese and thickened cream ratio is not going to kill the recipe. I don’t know the original source of the recipe; obviously it has been passed around from one generous baker to another, then to another.  Thank you all for sharing your precious recipes and experiences in your food blogs.  We food bloggers are bunch of nice people you know …. **blush blush**

Here is my modified version. 

Ingredients:

Base

15 pcs of Digestive Biscuits (crushed)

80g melted butter

Or,

20 pcs of Oreo cookies (crushed,40 pcs after cream removed)

45g melted butter

Filling

2x 250g of Kraft Philadelphia cream cheese

150g caster sugar

1 ½ tablespoon of corn flour

2 eggs, lightly beaten

275ml Thickened cream (I use Bula)

Optional:

 Juice and zest of lemon

Or

Zest of 1 orange

Directions:

1.      Combine biscuits crumbs and melted butter.  Press into a spring form cake pan lined with aluminum foil. Chill in fridge for half an hour.

2.      Beat cream cheese and sugar till smooth.  Add corn flour, eggs, thicken cream and beat till combine.

3.      Add lemon juice and zest or orange zest.

4.      Pour mixture into prepared cake pan and bake for 40 – 45 mins at 180C. 

5.      Cool in oven till near to room temperature and chill in fridge overnight.

You will find that the cream cheese and cream portion is in full packing size. If you are using different brands, potentially different packing size,  er ...  go with the gut feeling;  a little more or less is fine.

My kids love Oreo cookies base, which means the Digestive biscuits are now sitting in the can doing nothing … *URGHHH*

If you like thicker base, by all means increase the base portion.  I have also tried mixing Oreo cookies with Digestive biscuits in an attempt to finish up the latter.  My daughter commented: “Mummy, the Oreo base taste different today and it is not as sweet.” She is 11 years old, and refused to be fooled.

The challenge for me is the aesthetic look of the cheese cake.  My cheese cakes had this rim around it; like Crater Lake. Sometimes better sometimes not, depending on how I played with the oven conditions. Sad to say, I have not found the right conditions … yet. But hey, even Starbucks cheese cake looks the same! Happened to the pro even, so I am not that in a hurry.

My good friend, Jen, bake hers in water bath to avoid crater formation.  I am not sure how well that works, but I won’t do it.  Once, and only once, I had my bread dough in the oven with hot water during proofing.  The steam went in between the glass panels of the door; leaving running water marks, drove me nuts!  Worst, that area is not accessible for cleaning … still an eyesore! *URGHHH*

This is the first time I had such an even rise in the oven.  I think that's because I covered the top since the very beginning.  Then I had to uncover it cos' there was no sign of drying after 30 mins.

Rim or no rim, they all taste good.  Friends have asked for the recipe and happily baking away ...

Cream Cheese Bread

My first attempt in bread making was … what 10 years ago?! I bought a box of ready mix.  All I knew about bread making was written on the box. Not surprisingly, it wasn’t successful.  The bread was sour and dense; I think the dough collapsed because I proofed it for too long. Ha ha, how would I know … I thought the longer the merrier.

From then, it has been just a thought that come and gone every now and then.  No time, no energy, no mood … I needed sleep more than anything else after my two little darlings have arrived.

Last year, a friend posted her bread on Facebook.   I said to her: ‘teach me.’  From there, is what people would have said: ‘… and the rest is history!’  

I have to admit, I am not an obedient baker; I would twist and change the recipe even with my limited experience.  That explains why I failed so often …

A good reason why I make bread is so that my loved ones eat healthily.  I bought this organic unbleached bread flour. My bread did not turn out good.  In fact, the dough was already not looking good; I couldn't get to the usual elastic dough.  I tried again, same thing happened.

So I googled, I mean who else knows better than Uncle Google right?  Then I realized that particular unbleached bread flour contained only 10.8% protein.  That is the typical protein level for all purpose flour of many other brands.  Bread flour ideally should have 12 – 14% protein.  I felt cheated.

So, I bought Gold Medal Better for Bread flour.  For heaven sake, what kind of mistake can you make right?? - Wrong! The poor me kneaded the poor dough for 30 mins on my mixer and hand kneaded further, still not able to stretch to thin film.  I am still wondering why … Maybe it’s not meant for Asian bread … I don’t know.

Have you ever heard of this book that promises five minutes a day, and you will have freshly bake artisan bread for breakfast?? I am not sure about you, but I was surely tempted and bought in! Why wouldn’t I? – Considering I usually take about 4 hours to product a loaf.  There is a soft sandwich loaf recipe way at the back of the book. If you are looking for soft bread, don’t, I repeat don’t even think about trying it.  How can one produce soft, fluffy bread without kneading?  My loaf turned out crumby and dense.

That got me thinking … everything is all about relativity.  Isn’t it?? Yes, it is soft compare to crusty Italian bread.  No, it is not soft compare to water roux bread.  So, I am back to my usual (bleached) bread flour and concentrate on my kneading skill. Gosh, must try some Japanese bread flour ...

I made this cream cheese loaf on a Wednesday, after I got home from work.  I was dying; my hands must knead some dough.  The bread was soft, even after days.  So if you are one of those who do not like the water roux smell in the bread, this one might work for you.  My darlings could not detect the cream cheese, so I think it can be a good base for sweet or savory bread. 

It was past 10pm by the time the bread was sent into the oven; kids were already in bed. My son woke up and asked for the bread cos’ ‘it smells so good and I am hungry.’

I sacrificed a little dough and filled it with spicy dried prawn for my husband. 

Cream cheese spread with sugar for breakfast ...

I got the recipe from here. The dough is quite wet.  I know is messy, but don’t let it stop you ya … I found this Japanese video in Utube, and it’s quite effective with wet dough.  I kind of enjoy the process now … from wet dough to a shiny elastic dough – very therapeutic!

I also bought this, a dish drainer to proof my dough ... works like magic ... Might sound like a joke, but hear me out ya ...It's a 3-piece set. Hot water goes into the base, dough in the drainer and cover. There you got an ideal environment, warm and humid, to proof your bread; rain or shine.

Quest for the CCCC

Chocolate chips cookies (a.k.a CCC, 3Cs) have a very special place in my heart.

No, not because I love to eat them.

No, definitely not because they are easy to make; at least not the kind that I want.  In fact, I have conquered recipes to my liking or at least some-what liking, EXCEPT chocolate chips cookies.  Can you feel my frustration between the lines?

My baking fun started with muffins; piece of cake.  So I ushered the 3Cs into my oven.  I have lost count of how many times I have made chocolate chips cookies; kids and friends love it, except me – the baker.  I don’t want just any CCC, it must be CCCC, the 4Cs! – No, not that 4Cs (condominium, cash, car and career) which our follow citizens are chasing after.  It’s Chewy Chocolate Chips Cookies! Chewy, is the magic word.

A fun, out-of-love pastime has eventually turned into a frustrating quest; the search for the right recipe to produce the right 4Cs.  

‘If you are not a cookies fan, why bother? Anyway, it’s good enough to your Darlings. Why make such a big deal over it??’ – You might wonder.

Good question, cos’ I wonder the same too. 

Crispy cookies are easy, for me at least, bite size dough couple with longer baking time.  Whichever degree of crispiness, play with that conditions.  All of the chewy recipes I have tried so far, turned out to be crispy or crispy-potentials but never chewy.  You see what I mean??

Ok, we are talking about chewy cookies here …

What have I tried?  Wow, so many different things.

First and forth most, was read and read about what experienced bakers have to say.  Why re-invent the wheel, right??

Chewiness, according to some, is all about retaining the moisture in the cookies.  So use brown sugar instead of white sugar.

Tried. No magic word.  I guess it takes more than brown sugar alone.

Someone recommended using bread flour because of the higher protein content.

Again, no magic word.  So, it takes more than protein alone.

Many recipes that claimed to produce the 4Cs, instructed “beat butter and sugar till creamy”. That was exactly what I did. Happily beating away and ... YES, very creamy indeed.

Still no magic word.  Ya, then I read somewhere someone said beating would incorporate air into the dough and airy cookies you would have.  I was speechless and fuming.  "WHICH ONE OF YOU IS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH??? BRING ME THE CULPRIT NOW!!!"

There was this discussion about dry ingredients and wet ingredients ratio.  I will save you the details on the relationship between density and volume.  Bottom line is:  use weighing scale rather than measuring cup.

Been there, done that.  No magic word. 

But I still weigh my ingredients, simply because it makes scientific sense. 

Well, something good had to come out from all these mess and effort, right?

Somebody said keep the dough cold; cold egg, cold mixing bowl, cold this and cold that … My heart turned cold and my brain was totally messed up with all these conflicting information.

‘Take every piece of information in the internet with a pitch of salt.’ – We all know that.  But it's more than just salt this time round.  There are butter and sugar too, and a whole lot more …

Then …

Some people actually trialed and tested different methods to yield either crispy cookies or chewy cookies. One of the recommendations, among many others, is to use melted butter. Why? – I don’t know.  They also mentioned use higher temperature shorter baking time. 

I have not tried it because I don’t see any ingredient that is so very different. I have had enough of failure you know.   But mainly, is because of the ‘one egg and one egg yolk.’  Then what am I suppose to do with the unused egg white?  That is simply …. an imperfection of the recipe - having left-over lying on the kitchen top.  I know, perfectionist can be unbelievably unreasonable at times.  My better half would roll his eyes and say to you: "Tell me about it!!"

In any case, I took the advice and used a similar recipe that called for 2 full eggs - good job, nice and clean.  What I got from doing all these? – Soft but not chewy cookies. I could hear my sarcastic self screaming: "Hell-o, anybody home? Didn’t the recipe specifically mention the difference of using one yolk? What were you thinking??!!" - Right, so much for being a perfectionist, way to go …

By this time, I was screaming inside me: “WTH IS YOUR DEFINITION OF CHEWY?????” I am pretty sure you are feeling my frustration now.  I gave up searching for CCCC, and googled Subway CCC.  It was amazing how many hits I've got.  Great, there are so many people out there just as obsessed as I am.  It's comforting to know, really.

Somebody mentioned the use of pudding mix.  What is pudding mix? – Corn starch with different flavors.  So I added corn starch.  They were the worst CCC I have ever made, thick, floury, dry … whatever, I didn’t care.  That was not a keeper.

So I stopped baking CCC, feeling completely defeated ….

Very much gave up and stopped picturing the ecstasy of finally biting into the chewiness I desperately seek.

The quest is over, OVER!!!

It wasn't the end of the world you know, and I managed to move on and find my new love - bread.

Ha ha, that was another frustrating long story … another day ya … but this one has got a happy ending … *smile*

Months and months have gone by ... no CCC, let alone CCCC ...

Over the weekend, we held a simple birthday gathering for Darling Boy.  Only one of Darling Girl’s friends could come, and she specially asked for my chocolate chips cookies. 

How could I possibly disappoint a ten year-old fan, right? 

Yet, it felt like rubbing salt to my CCCC wound. 

Still, I decided to bake some for her. No quest.  'It’s over", remember??

I sat down, went through different recipes … condensation in progress.

Here is the what and the how:

What

ত        180 g all purpose flour

ত        115 g bread flour

ত        227 g unsalted butter

ত        100 g brown sugar

ত        120 g dark sugar

ত        2 large eggs

ত        1 teaspoon baking soda

ত        1 ½ teaspoon vanilla extract

ত        ½ teaspoon salt

ত        1 pack (270g) semi sweet chocolate chips

How

1. Melt the butter, and stir in the sugars. 
2. Add in the eggs, one at a time, and vanilla extract and mix well.
3. In a separate bowl, combine all purpose flour, bread flour and baking soda. Sift into butter mixture.
4. Add in salt and chocolate chips, mix well.
5. Chill the dough in the fridge for 30 mins.
6. Form dough into 1 ½ tablespoon size and drop onto baking sheet.  Flatten with fork.
7. Bake on middle rack for 10 mins at 180C in a pre-heated oven. Cool on baking tray for 5 mins.
8. Enjoy! Store remaining cookies in air tight container.

The cookies turned out chewy, though not quite there yet but looked promising.  In fact, I was rather excited when I saw the gooey butter and sugar mixture.  A good chance of chewy cookies, I thought to myself.

Comments from tasters:

Chewy.  (Yes, yes, that is the magic word I have been searching for high and low.)

Sweetness is just right.

Taste is good, doesn’t stick on my teeth and throat.  Don’t ask me about texture.  I can’t tell.  *faint*

So, I have decided. 

I hereby declare the quest for the CCCC shall continue …

The cookies were chewy, but I want more.

So what’s next:

1. Reduce baking soda to half teaspoon.
2. I think I stirred too much while mixing the butter and sugar; I have to stop that.
3. Use coarse sugar, it’s ok if it is not dissolved completely.
4. If you like your cookies really sweet, add more sugar.  It should make the cookies chewier.
5. Consider throw in the cold ingredients theory. No harm trying again, right?

If you have a recipe that gives Subway kind of chewiness, please save me from my agony and share …  Your name will be mentioned every time I talk about chocolate chips cookies, I can assure you.

Disclaimer: What works in my kitchen might not work in yours, and the reverse might be true.